Emeric Thao Interview on Furi: The Full Radio Transcript

The Transcript from my Interview with The Game Bakers Creative Director Emeric Thao

Matthew Hill: Thanks for giving us your time again. Just for everyone out there who doesn’t know what Furi is, could you briefly summarise it for us please?

Emeric Thoa: Yes of course. So Furi is a boss fight game, basically you only fight bosses, but it’s also a game with strong meaning and story. Basically you play as someone who is trying to escape his jail who will face guardians who do not want him to escape.

MH: One thing you mention is the story, when you see the trailer you don’t see how deep the narrative is because it kind of unfolds gradually, was that always the plan in the game? Or did [you] kind of decide it that way mid production?

ET: Oh No. We decided from the beginning we wanted to have a game where you don’t know exactly who you are. Why you are fighting these guardians. Why they don’t want you to escape from this jail. There is a mysterious character at the beginning, freeing you from your jail who has this rabbit mask and gives you a weapon and says ‘okay we’ve got to escape, we’ve gotta go, be careful they are dangerous, you’ve gotta fight them.’, and he doesn’t tell you why, he doesn’t tell you who he is. You don’t really know who you are, and you don’t know why they don’t want you to escape. So you fight them. And along the way, your character realises who they are and who he is, and who’s the mysterious rabbit masked character as well. So it was part of the plan from the beginning.

MH: Ah sweet. It works out really well. Also the soundtrack is a really big part of the game. Was it always the plan to have the soundtrack be as prominent, or did it kind of just, once you heard some of the songs you decided it was going to be [That way]?

ET: It’s actually also something planned from the start. Like we actually said ‘Okay we’re gonna invest a big part of the game budget in the music, more than we ever did and it’s going to be worthwhile, it’s almost part of our marketing budget, because good music is good advertising in a way.’ And also design wise it was from the beginning, something that was meant to support the two areas of the game. So in the game you have one part where you walk on a path and there is no combat. There is no action gameplay. You just walk on the path and [it’s] a very cinematographic experience, you watch your character, he is walking towards an arena and you know that there is a boss waiting for him there, and you walk slowly towards this arena, and we wanted there to be this music that goes CH CH CH crescendo, to build up the tension and makes the character pumped up, to fight this new boss, that was one part. And then once you play the game, the gameplay is really fast paced, really hectic, really intense. And we wanted a music that would support that as well. so we thought like electro music a bit sin 12 style would really match the adrenaline that the fight triggers.

MH: It definitely does. I listen to the soundtrack alone because, it really is. It pumps you up like a prefight scenario.

ET: Yeah exactly Matt. Well actually it was part of my routine when I was practising martial arts and boxing. When I would go in the ring, we had basic training and one day a week I was going in the ring and they fight guys and its curious for everyone, even the good boxers, which i am not. You are always scared because you can take a foot to the face and it’s never good, so you’re scared to go, but I used to put some headphones on and listen to music and try to get myself pumped up to go there, and once you are there, and you fight. You forget the everything, the adrenaline kicks in and it’s fine, but the moment before is the most stressful, so music helps.

MH: I can imagine.

MH: Just to touch up on the design of the characters, because the world is like this psychedelic neon wonderland essentially. And all the characters, each boss you battle is very unique and their fighting style matches it. Did you always want each boss to represent their arena and themselves? Or did you kind of define a fighting style for the character?

ET: No, we designed both together. So we started with the characters. We started with a strong idea for each character, why they are fighting, they all have one reason to fight, a very strong one. So it’s not a game where you have to beat the evil guy to finish the game. Every character has a reason to enter a duel to death. the key idea of the game was ‘What reason would you enter an arena and either kill or be killed.’ So there are not that many, but there are some reasons, and in our daily lives, we don’t have these reasons, but at one point in someone’s story they have these reasons and it could still happen. So the character are designed with a strong motive. A strong gameplay concept. And this was the brief we gave to Takashi Okazaki, as the creator of Afro samurai anime and manga. And we worked with him so we came up with crazy cool character concepts and I always ended up changing the gameplay because his artworks were so good I wanted to have his ideas in the game. But Yeah we worked first on the character and then once we had the character, when we had the start for the character we were thinking okay like this guy needs his own little jail world, and where/what would be the environment? How would he build his training/arena environment. And that’s how we came up with the neon wonderland like you said.

MH: I’m at a loss for words because it’s such a beautiful game. Like firstly for me my favourite boss was the scale, what was your favourite personal character? And was that through fighting him? Or did the concept [of them] just entrap you?

ET: Ah yeah, I have a few favourites, but it’s super difficult to chose. I remember when we play tested the game with players and we asked what was their favourite. Once a guy said ‘This is my favourite, no no this one, no this one’ and then he said them all, *Laughter* okay. Probably my favourite is the edge. So he’s more like a samurai sword type guy, because he’s very edgy gameplay wise, there is no shooting in this boss fight, and at the same time I like another boss who is a bit of a spoiler, who was only shooting, so I like the extremes when the bosses are extremes. But I also like the burst with the female sniper who can snipe you but also shoot and also fight in close range, so she uses a bit of every feature in the game. So yeah I like when there is a strong take and it’s not making any compromise.

MH: Exactly. I remember fighting the edge and it killed me off, so many so many times.

ET: Yeah that’s the purpose, It’s a test.

MH: I suppose I did get very good at parrying *Laughter*. So I guess it did teach. On that note the gameplay is very simplistic in a way. You can dash, parry swordplay or shoot guns, but it’s incredibly deep. There’s no upgrades or anything so did you want to focus on one aspect alone?

ET: Yes, that was a strong take as well. ‘Cause the reason why a lot of these things were decided from day one because I had this game in mind since 2005 I think. So it was 10 years of thinking about this game. And so it pretty much was well decided in my head before we started. One very strong concept that I wanted is pure inputs and lots of outputs, that’s how I always summarise it. Pure controls, so the player doesn’t have to remember a lot of combos or a lot of upgrades or he doesn’t have to choose between this weapon or this weapon. The basic idea is the controller is a musical instrument, it’s a guitar, it’s a piano, whatever. You have six strings, you can play with the strings, and the first time you play a boss, is like the first time you play a new song, you suck at it. You can’t play it correctly, it’s very hard, but the guitar doesn’t change, the controller doesn’t change, the character doesn’t change. But the more you practise the better you get at it. And ultimately you can beat the boss in three minutes no K.O. No hit. And that was very important for me to give a simple instrument and make the boss himself be the challenge.

MH: I’ve noticed, because I finally, finally beat the game. You unlock the Furier difficulty. Which isn’t just more health, I mean less health more damage. The bosses actually change their tactics and routines. Did you plan to make the hard mode like playing through a new game, like a sequel almost to the game.

ET: Yeah exactly. That’s something that wasn’t planned. At first I went for one difficulty and that was it. But then we were into production and we were with Benjamin (Le Moullec) my combat designer. And we were like, because we were so used at the game. And we knew people would find it odd because it was their first play through, but we knew also that some players would be like us, say very invested in the game, they would practise and at one point they would want more. And we were like aarrhh, we could make a Furi hard mode, and we decided okay lets make it, it’s not that complicated to duplicate everything and remake everything, it’s not hard, it’s just spending the hours and being creative. And so we decided to make a complete new difficulty mode, that would be new patterns, that wouldn’t completely reuse the challenge and if we make a harder difficulty mode, it must be a new challenge. It should not just be damage that go up, and so we spent the hours and eventually we have this game mode, and honestly it’s the game mode were I have real actual fun, because i’m super used to the game and I still can’t beat it without any K.O’s. There is a challenge in the game, which never happens before, usually when you finish a game you never play it again. But this I know that when I have time I will play Furi again, just to beat my own game, so that’s cool.

MH: I know exactly what you mean, I think since the game came out, every few months I’ll go back and face the chain again and again, still trying to perfect it… and I’ve still not managed it *Laughter*. But it’s getting closer and closer. Do you have when you were younger what was the game that took you in, the game that grasped you the most.

ET: Well honestly when I was young the games that grabbed me the most were Japanese RPGs. So that’s were I probably take the big, there’s a big part of Furi that is driven by the characters. And RPGs often have strong characters. So it’s through your characters. So for me character design is very important. But the closest old game that was important to me in my youth and that is Super directly related to Furi is the game Super Punch Out from Nintendo. So it’s a boxing game and it’s basically a boss fight game. You go in the ring and you have one very strong lead character designed character/boxer who has special attacks and you as a boxer you can punch up down, you can dodge left right back, you can throw guard and that’s it. So it’s simple, it’s about learning the patterns and beating him, and you beat him and you go to the next one and you do that again. And it’s a very difficult game but it was really fun and simple and basically when you are in Furi and when you lose sometimes it [feels like] a 3D version of this game.

MH: I can see what you mean. It’s definitely got the whole learning patterns, I can see the influence.

ET: But I realise that anyone who likes Furi who’s listening to this interview to check out Super Punch Out. It’s probably easy to find, and if you still have a WII at home there’s a WII versions, it’s a new game but it’s very fun as well. so it’s a good game to play and it never gets old.

MH: Oh sweet. I’ll have to check it out myself.

MH: You’ve recently released some DLC called ‘One More Fight’ correct?

ET: Yes

MH: Without spoiling it, there’s more than just one boss in the content correct?

ET: *Laughter*. Well for sure there is one boss. The Flame is a character who’s in the story but [we] removed it for the PC PS4 launch, I prefer this version because it’s very good without this character. But he was planned from the beginning and he was there to take his revenge, so his motive was revenge. and it’s a very complete boss fight, it’s very long, it’s very challenging, more like an end of the game boss fight, because it uses all the abilities that a boss can have so it’s very complete. and its a new arena, [with] New music from Scattle. And when we decided to take this boss that was planned for the XBOX game first and bring it to PC and PS4 we wanted to you know surprise the players and fans that were there, so we made something else in the DLC, so there is a little surprise and it was just putting the hours and nothing complicated but I think it’s a nice surprise for the fans.

MH: I see what you’re saying, so it’s worth beating the boss then?

ET: *Laughter*

MH: [Do] You guys have anything in development at the moment? or are you just focusing on Furi’s DLC?

ET: Well actually, often I read on the forums or comments from people on twitter with stuff like ‘oh porting is easy.’ ‘This must be quick.’ ‘This is just a few lines of code.’ and most things is a few line of code, even just tasks that don’t require code like setting a DLC up in steam or Sony or Microsoft is just days. So honestly we were mostly focused on Furi so far, but we started something else of course and I really can’t say anything else but just want to say that Furi is probably, I mean it is a game that was in my mind for 10 years so I’m super happy how it turned out. I love the game and i’m very very proud and also it was planned that it was a one shot game. So we’re never going to make a sequel, we’re not going to make anymore DLCs this one was for the fans who wanted the same content as the XBOX version. So that’s it for Furi. Now we’re moving on and it’s going to be a very different game but with the same values in its core, like Japanese inspired, in a way like game, in a way game design is inspired by Japanese game and it’s going to be very character driven, and many other things but it’s going very very fun.

MH: Wow that sounds amazing. i’ll look forward to that and whenever the announcement drops. And also I’ve just noticed on your twitter that you’re a big fan of the new Nier game.

ET: Oh yeah. Of course. It was risky like Yoko Taro from Nier and Drakengard and Platinum, it could have gone crazy bad, and I think that it went crazy good [Laughter]. So I’m happy… But I don’t know who is behind, like the figure front for the Nier games is Yoko Taro so he’s the creative director, but I think he’s not the game’s mechanics designer. There must be someone really good at Platinum who made the character controls and animation for 2B, ’cause she moves better than any third person character that I have ever taken control of. I love how she dodges and moves.

MH: I can see why you’d be hooked. I just wanted to say thank you for giving us your time to interview you and it’s been a pleasure.

ET: Thank you too, it’s been my pleasure as well.

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I just want to take the moment to thank Emeric Thao for taking the time out to have this interview with me. If you're interested in Furi, or their latest game Haven, you can find these on PC, Playstation, XBOX and Nintendo Switch.

https://www.thegamebakers.com/